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Name Servers: Registrar or Web Host?

Name Servers: Registrar or Web Host?

Whose name servers is it better to use, the registrar's or the web host's?

Who would have faster propagation? Which makes it easier to manage SSL (automatically)? Does it make a difference if wanting to host subdomains on different servers?

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Comments

  • nyvpsusernyvpsuser Member
    edited November 26

    Cloudflare's free dns.

    There are sites that will check DNS speed for you, try different ones.

    One advantages of using the web host's DNS is that if they have to move you to a different IP address for some reason they can fix the DNS at the same time and you don't have to.

    Thanked by 3ez2uk TimRoo sin
  • imokimok Member

    I use the one with better easy-to-use management panel.

    Janitor @ Netflix

  • Neither one of them. Get DNS hosting from a third party or set up your own. If you want to use your host, check if they support using cloudflare. Best free option there is.

  • WSSWSS Member

    Your own. If you are really trying for the simplest, it's probably going to be the registrar, but you're going to likely need to handle the zones by hand, yourself, if you want sub-delegation.

  • Diversify! Use different companies for registrar, hosting and DNS. That way they can't hold you hostage, you can always move without them needing to cooperate with you.

  • As a personal opinion NAMESILO is the best domain sales provider, you know how much it costs to buy and renew, in addition to an excellent DNS handling.

  • @joereid said: Diversify! Use different companies for registrar, hosting and DNS. That way they can't hold you hostage, you can always move without them needing to cooperate with you.

    Hosting and registrar for sure.

    DNS not so much, there is not much ground where either of these two could hold you as a hostage.

  • depricateddepricated Member
    edited November 26

    Ok, I signed up for cloudflare to try that out. I also have an account at freedns.afraid.org that I haven't used.

    For registrars, I use NameSilo and Porkbun and they seem to have many options for DNS.

    I'm asking this because I had to switch hosting servers and was wondering how to minimize hassles and downtime in the future. I anticipate changing hosting servers more often than registrars.

    One thing is that Cloudflare/FreeDNS have limits on their free offerings, while the registrars (which are paid) have more generous terms.

  • sureiamsureiam Member
    edited November 26

    I setup 1 minute monitoring on name silo dns after reading their disclaimer about increasing default ttl after 2 weeks of no changes to improve caching by 3rd party dns... I was not impressed.. Seriously the down time on their dns is crazy.. I did the same for frantechs and it was light years ahead even better than name cheaps free dns tier.. Additionally name silo dns servers seem to be in Europe netting a 100ms+ ping from US locations. In short don't use name silos dns services. As a registrar though they are fantastic.

    Give you some raw numbers for the week of Nov. 12th-19th Name Silo DNS (ns1.dnsowl.com) had 840 outages with 21 hr 28 min downtime, which comes out to 87.2222% uptime for that week. Additionally they had an average ping of 150ms from US based servers. That's unacceptable levels of downtime for a DNS service and not great ping from US. In Comparison FranTech's BuyVM DNS had zero down time for the same duration (1 week) with a 35ms average ping from US Servers... Kinda speaks for itself. However full disclosure there was about 33mins of downtime reported on Nov. 9th.. But in the 5 months that I've had the monitor running it's only recorded about 5 downtimes of 1 min each otherwise, (enough to warrant it being just a blip on the monitoring and not really downtime).

    Thanked by 2depricated datanoise
  • @sureiam said: I setup 1 minute monitoring on name silo dns after reading their disclaimer about increasing default ttl after 2 weeks of no changes to improve caching by 3rd party dns...

    Give you some raw numbers for the week of Nov. 12th-19th Name Silo DNS (ns1.dnsowl.com) had 840 outages with 21 hr 28 min downtime, which comes out to 87.2222% uptime for that week.

    Wow, I would have thought the famous registrars would be better than smaller hosting providers for uptime.

    As for increased ttl, isn't that meant to help your site's availability in case DNS goes down?

  • sureiamsureiam Member
    edited November 26

    @depricated said: As for increased ttl, isn't that meant to help your site's availability in case DNS goes down?

    Yes exactly but it can also be frustrating. You may not want to wait hours or even days before updating your DNS records because you have to wait for the ttl records to expire

  • asvasv Member
    edited November 26

    Generally, I would discourage from using registrar's DNS, seen some shady practises were observed in past. For example, injecting redirects for non-existing subdomains and such (yes, I'm looking at you name.com). Few commercial providers offer free packages (NS1?..).

    If your service deemed to comply with .gov regulations/etc, consult with your IT dept. first, there are likely to be specific requirements about redundancy, country of where data is stored and so on.

  • Cloudflare was working fine for DNS for a while... and now I realized that the IP had changed on the shared host. Is it normal for hosting IPs to change? Can the DNS be made to update the IP automatically?

  • RadiRadi Member, Provider

    @depricated If you want IP to change automatically, your host can do it for you provided that you are using their DNS.

    VikingLayer now offers VPS resource pools. Ask me about them today. :)

  • painfreepcpainfreepc Member
    edited December 4

    @depricated said: Cloudflare was working fine for DNS for a while... and now I realized that the IP had changed on the shared host. Is it normal for hosting IPs to change? Can the DNS be made to update the IP automatically?

    WTF and how is that cloudflare's problem..

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • @Radi I realize that, but I rather like the nearly instantaneous DNS propagation of Cloudflare, especially when I was changing the hosting server several times. I just didn't think I'd need something like dynamic DNS for hosting... Surely this is not a new concern for Cloudflare users?

  • Arch_LiamArch_Liam Member, Provider
    edited December 4

    @depricated said: @Radi I realize that, but I rather like the nearly instantaneous DNS propagation of Cloudflare, especially when I was changing the hosting server several times. I just didn't think I'd need something like dynamic DNS for hosting... Surely this is not a new concern for Cloudflare users?

    I wouldn't consider it normal for a hosting company to use dynamic IPs like that, especially for something like web hosting. If it's a problem, see if they offer dedicated IPs.

    Maybe once or twice a year they'll need to switch the IP for migrations/subnet changes/etc. but I would hope that isn't a common thing.

    https://archhosting.net/ - Arch Hosting - Los Angeles KVM & East Coast OpenVZ starting at $5/mo.

    Thanked by 1depricated
  • For now my solution is to create the following php file in the web root directory to print the server IP

    <?php print $_SERVER['SERVER_ADDR']; ?>

    and use uptimerobot.com to do a keyword check for the known IP, otherwise send me an email.

    I have zero php knowledge, so let me know if that's a bad idea.

  • @Arch_Liam said:

    Maybe once or twice a year they'll need to switch the IP for migrations/subnet changes/etc. but I would hope that isn't a common thing.

    I was thinking more once every couple of years, and they should give you advanced notice unless there's an emergency.

  • Hurricane Electric have free hosted DNS. Multiple servers on anycast IP addresses with extensive DNS record type support. It's pretty nice. Still no DNSSEC support though. :(

    Thanked by 1mrTom
  • IkoulaIkoula Provider

    Hello,

    If you do not handle your zones on a dns setup by yourself the most conveniant would be to use your registrar's dns.

    Not sure there is a difference between a registrar and a web host concerning propagation because it depends on the dns settings of the servers. But it is faster when you manage your zones on your server because you can set when it happens.

    Not sure what you mean with SSL and subdomains ?

    Thomas - Community manager - ikoula.com

    hyperv vps /-/ xen cloud vm /-/ dedicated servers

  • WSSWSS Member

    Jesus dude, just get a $3/yr OVZ and set it up with a non-DNSSEC free secondary. Or, pay $5/yr and do it right with a KVM.

  • @WSS said: Jesus dude, just get a $3/yr OVZ and set it up with a non-DNSSEC free secondary. Or, pay $5/yr and do it right with a KVM.

    Sorry dude, I don't understand any of that.

    @Ikoula what's the advantage of using the registrar's DNS vs a DNS provider? Surprising disadvantages were already pointed out.

    @Middling Is there a reason to prefer Hurricane Electric over Cloudflare? The latter's CDN seems like a nice feature.

  • It depends.

    I recommend OVH.ie DNS though, it's free.

    Adobe Creative Cloud For Teams All Apps 1 Year @ $20. I'll go first, Skype: live:createprivateserver, Discord: 5TicksDaikin#0922 or PM

    Avast Ultimate 1 PC 3 Years @ $20

  • 3rd party dns for me. Quick easy and any changes are done in minutes.

    Dont'TalkAboutLETClub There is this thing called hoopla.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • IkoulaIkoula Provider

    @depricated As i said it depends on settings but a registrar is supposed to have set short delays between dns propagation waves.

    Thomas - Community manager - ikoula.com

    hyperv vps /-/ xen cloud vm /-/ dedicated servers

  • Thanks for the input. To prevent this thread from turning into "what is your favorite flavor of ice cream?" let's clarify:

    • How do you deal with IP changes of your hosting server?

    The above problem seems to exist whether using 3rd party DNS or the registrar's DNS. Using the hosting provider's DNS might avoid the problem, but has other issues with propagation time if changing hosts/servers.

  • WSSWSS Member
    edited December 5

    @depricated said: Thanks for the input. To prevent this thread from turning into "what is your favorite flavor of ice cream?" let's clarify:

    • How do you deal with IP changes of your hosting server?

    The above problem seems to exist whether using 3rd party DNS or the registrar's DNS. Using the hosting provider's DNS might avoid the problem, but has other issues with propagation time if changing hosts/servers.

    Wat? Generally you get a static IP for any service and just use that. If you are in the habit of changing your IP/host a twill, you have far, far too much time on your hands.

    If you are worried about having to migrate, you need to have the TTL somewhat under your own control so you can begin moving/migrating for a seamless move. It's easiest to run your own DNS to handle this aspect of things.

  • ricardoricardo Member
    edited December 5

    The issue you mention is worth noting. It's definitely an issue, moreso when you manage thousands of domains for yourself or other people.

    Generally I'd recommend using the registrar or 3rd party. Often shared hosting providers will insist on you using their nameservers when adding domains, as a means of validating that you own the domain.

    No point in overthinking IP changes as it'll happen out of your control. If saving time is the biggest factor, use hosts nameservers. If performance or looking for a means to automate, go with 3rd party

  • ForwardWebForwardWeb Member, Provider

    @depricated said: Whose name servers is it better to use, the registrar's or the web host's?

    Who would have faster propagation? Which makes it easier to manage SSL (automatically)? Does it make a difference if wanting to host subdomains on different servers?

    Depends on who the web host is and how robust of a DNS set-up they have. If you are hosting your website with some rag-tag unknown operation it might be better to stick with your registrar (assuming its a notable company like namecheap or GD). https://dnsmadeeasy.com/pricing/ is also a good option

    Good question though, DNS is something most people dont really think about until they finally realize they need to take a closer look at their DNS set-up

  • bitswitchbitswitch Member
    edited December 5

    @sureiam said: Give you some raw numbers for the week of Nov. 12th-19th Name Silo DNS (ns1.dnsowl.com) had 840 outages with 21 hr 28 min downtime, which comes out to 87.2222% uptime for that week. Additionally they had an average ping of 150ms from US based servers. That's unacceptable levels of downtime for a DNS service and not great ping from US.

    Your posting actually made me curious and want to check for myself too. Of course I cannot comment on November as I have been monitoring it only since recently, but I couldnt confirm such major outages so far.

    It does seem that their nine servers (three for each of their three nameservers) are not all up all the time and there are some intermittent timeouts (most recently their ns3 server at 70.x.x.x) but the array's availability seems to be pretty fine. I havent checked latency though.

  • WSS said: Wat? Generally you get a static IP for any service and just use that.

    Which is what I assumed, until I found out the server's IP changed without notification to me or even to my hosting reseller.

    In conclusion, it seems like 3rd party (or self-hosted) DNS offers the most flexibility and features (propagation time, CDN, some DDOS protection), then the registrar (not having to re-edit zones, just update IP if changing host), and lastly the hosting provider if simplicity is more important (zones created automatically, just update name server at registrar).

    Thanks to everyone for sharing their experience and especially the "why" behind their suggestions.

  • WSSWSS Member

    @depricated said:

    WSS said: Wat? Generally you get a static IP for any service and just use that.

    Which is what I assumed, until I found out the server's IP changed without notification to me or even to my hosting reseller.

    That's not normal.

  • datanoisedatanoise Member
    edited December 5

    depricated said: Which is what I assumed, until I found out the server's IP changed without notification to me or even to my hosting reseller.

    WSS said: That's not normal.

    Could be pure trolling. If this is not, this is indeed not normal and I'd advise you to quickly change host for a more serious one @depricated

  • WSSWSS Member

    @datanoise said:

    depricated said: Which is what I assumed, until I found out the server's IP changed without notification to me or even to my hosting reseller.

    WSS said: That's not normal.

    Could be pure trolling. If this is not, this is indeed not normal and I'd advise you to quickly change host for a more serious one @depricated

    I would assume that it was, but it's such a lackluster effort that I think most wouldn't have even noticed the response.

  • depricateddepricated Member
    edited December 5

    Glad it's not normal. And no, not trolling.

    The server's main IP remained the same, but from what I was told, the shared dedicated IP used by client accounts was changed, possibly to put all of my reseller's clients on one shared IP. Details aside, it broke my domain name for a while.

  • It does happen a lot (a sample of 300, say 10 or so, which I'd say is a lot)...

    An uptime monitor would work well enough, or for important stuff, a host with its own IP space. The ones without their own IPs or the real low end market are the ones that switch, but inexplicably without notifying users.

    TBH it seems like a decent 'trick' for overselling when half your customers are pointing to the wrong server.

  • WSSWSS Member

    @depricated said: The server's main IP remained the same, but from what I was told, the shared dedicated IP used by client accounts was changed, possibly to put all of my reseller's clients on one shared IP. Details aside, it broke my domain name for a while.

    You need to find a new host for your stuff. They're incompetent.

  • ricardo said: An uptime monitor would work well enough, or for important stuff, a host with its own IP space.

    I've been using an uptime monitor to test the reliability of a couple of hosts. One has been perfect so far, the other (with the IP change issue) has had a couple of hiccups (15 + 3 min downtime over past 2 weeks).

    I'm not hosting any real site yet. Just test sites, and lots of learning for now.

    WSS said: You need to find a new host for your stuff. They're incompetent.

    Aww, no need to be nasty, especially since you're with that host too. :P

  • WSSWSS Member

    @depricated said:

    WSS said: You need to find a new host for your stuff. They're incompetent.

    Aww, no need to be nasty, especially since you're with that host too. :P

    God forbid it was something other than $2/yr throwaway..

  • WSS said: God forbid it was something other than $2/yr throwaway..

    God forbade.

  • Sam_NHSam_NH Member
    edited December 5

    If you want something simple then you should go for registrar one but if you want to handle the zones yourself then ofcourse the host one as you have full access over it.

    Sam (COO)
    NodHop Hosting :: Privately owned equipment and operated data centers.
    Cheap Cloud Hosting / VPS Hosting

  • @bitswitch said:

    @sureiam said: Give you some raw numbers for the week of Nov. 12th-19th Name Silo DNS (ns1.dnsowl.com) had 840 outages with 21 hr 28 min downtime, which comes out to 87.2222% uptime for that week. Additionally they had an average ping of 150ms from US based servers. That's unacceptable levels of downtime for a DNS service and not great ping from US.

    Your posting actually made me curious and want to check for myself too. Of course I cannot comment on November as I have been monitoring it only since recently, but I couldnt confirm such major outages so far.

    It does seem that their nine servers (three for each of their three nameservers) are not all up all the time and there are some intermittent timeouts (most recently their ns3 server at 70.x.x.x) but the array's availability seems to be pretty fine. I havent checked latency though.

    They probably have better uptime when looking at the full array... I'm only looking at ns1.dnsowl.com

  • I pay DnsMadeEasy $30/yr because they are very competent at their job.

    I barely break 100k reqs/mo out of their 5M quota.
    Plus, I have the option to pay $5/yr to add a 'failover DNS record' later.

    It's one less (very critical) thing to worry about when things start acting up.

  • @sureiam said: They probably have better uptime when looking at the full array... I'm only looking at ns1.dnsowl.com

    That could explain a lot :). I have stopped the monitoring by now, but from what I could tell over the short period is that one or two out of their nine server cluster regularly do seem to be unreachable (which could explain your observations) but their overall DNS setup appears to work just fine.

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